Interesting article, but it compares apples to a fruit stand: The approach could be improved by comparing Capsicum to using seccomp in the same way.
Sometime ago I wrote a library for a customer that did exactly that: Open a number of resources, e.g., stdin, stdout, stderr, a pipe or two, a socket or two, make the seccomp calls necessary to restrict the use of read/write/etc. to the associated file descriptors, then lock out all other system calls - which includes seccomp-related calls.
Basically, the library took a very Capsicum-like approach of whitelisting specific actions then sealing itself against further changes.
This is a LOT of work, of course, and the available APIs don't make it particularly easy or elegant, but it is definitely doable. I chose this approach because the docker whitelist approach was far too open ended and "uncurated", if you will, for the use-case we were targeting.
In this particular case, I was aided by the fact the library was written to support the very specific use-case of filters running in containers using FIFOs for IPC, logging, and reporting: Every filter saw exactly the same interfaces to the world, so it was relatively easier to lock things down.
Having said that, I wish Linux had a Capsicum-equivalent call, or, even better for the approach I took, a friendlier way to whitelist specific calls.
A problem with that approach is that libc can after an upgrade decide to start doing syscalls you were not expecting. Like the first time you call `printf()` it calls `newfstatat()`. Only the first time. Maybe in the future it'll call it more often than that, and then your binary breaks.
I'm not sure what glibc's latest policy is on linking statically, but at least it used to be basically unsupported and bugs about it were ignored. But even if supported, you can't know if it under some configurations or runtime circumstances uses dlopen for something.
Or maybe once you juggle more than X file descriptors some code switches from using `poll()` to using `select()` (or `epoll()`).
That's the approach I meant by "that approach", the library the parent commenter was talking about writing for a customer. Compare this to Landlock or OpenBSDs pledge/unveil.
“The goal of Landlock is to enable restriction of ambient rights (e.g. global filesystem or network access) for a set of processes. Because Landlock is a stackable LSM [(Linux Security Model)], it makes it possible to create safe security sandboxes as new security layers in addition to the existing system-wide access-controls. ... Landlock empowers any process, including unprivileged ones, to securely restrict themselves.”
I've actually found it pretty fine. It doesn't have full coverage, but they have a system of adding coverage (ABI versions), and it covers a lot of the important stuff.
The one restriction I'm not sure about is that you can't say "~/ except ~/.gnupg". You have to actually enumerate everything you do want to allow. But maybe that's for the best. Both because it mandates rules not becoming too complex to reason about, and because that's a weird requirement in general. Like did you really mean to give access to ~/.gnupg.backup/? Probably not. Probably best to enumerate the allowlist.
And if you really want to, I guess you can listdir() and compose the exhaustive list manually, after subtracting the "except X".
I find seccomp unusable and not fit for purpose, but landlock closes many doors.
Maybe you know better? I'd love to hear your take.
I definitely don't know better, and after taking a few more looks at landlock, I'm not even sure what my objections were, probably got it confused with something else entirely. Confusion and ignorance on my part I guess.
Landlock right now doesn't offer a lot for things that aren't file system access. Other than that it's great, you can have different restrictions per-thread if you want to.
I've seen AI written blog posts before, but this is one step above: the entire blog (~90 articles) have been AI generated over the past three months.
I already find it very frustrating that most open source projects spawning on HN's front page are resume-boosting AI slop but if blogs start being the same the internet is definitely dead.
Edit: it doesn't even looks like it's resume-boosting in this case, the “person” behind it doesn't even appear to exist. We can only speculate about the intent behind this.
It reminds me the pinnacle of design - Microsoft Authenticator. On Android, out of the blue, it displays global overlay to select one of the 3 numbers to confirm login.
1. The post mainly reiterates a single idea (Capsicum enumerates what the process can do, seccomp provides a configurable filter) in many different ways. There is not much actual depth, code samples notwithstanding. Nothing on why different designs were chosen, how easy each is to use, outcomes besides the Chrome example, etc.
2. There are a lot of AI writing tells, like staccato sentences, parallelism ("Same browser. Same threat model. Same problem."), pointless summary tables, "it's not X, it's Y" contradiction ("This is not a bug. It is the original Unix security model"), etc.
3. The author has roughly a blog post a day, all with similar style and on widely varied topics, and in the same writing style. Unless the author has deep expertise on a remarkably wide range of topics and spends all their time writing, these can't reflect deep insight or experience, but minimal editing of AI output.
It's pretty obvious. Lots of LLM signs. Short sentences that keep repeating the same idea. It's not x, it's this. In fact, the entire blog seems to be LLM-generated.
Interesting article, but it compares apples to a fruit stand: The approach could be improved by comparing Capsicum to using seccomp in the same way.
Sometime ago I wrote a library for a customer that did exactly that: Open a number of resources, e.g., stdin, stdout, stderr, a pipe or two, a socket or two, make the seccomp calls necessary to restrict the use of read/write/etc. to the associated file descriptors, then lock out all other system calls - which includes seccomp-related calls.
Basically, the library took a very Capsicum-like approach of whitelisting specific actions then sealing itself against further changes.
This is a LOT of work, of course, and the available APIs don't make it particularly easy or elegant, but it is definitely doable. I chose this approach because the docker whitelist approach was far too open ended and "uncurated", if you will, for the use-case we were targeting.
In this particular case, I was aided by the fact the library was written to support the very specific use-case of filters running in containers using FIFOs for IPC, logging, and reporting: Every filter saw exactly the same interfaces to the world, so it was relatively easier to lock things down.
Having said that, I wish Linux had a Capsicum-equivalent call, or, even better for the approach I took, a friendlier way to whitelist specific calls.
A problem with that approach is that libc can after an upgrade decide to start doing syscalls you were not expecting. Like the first time you call `printf()` it calls `newfstatat()`. Only the first time. Maybe in the future it'll call it more often than that, and then your binary breaks.
I'm not sure what glibc's latest policy is on linking statically, but at least it used to be basically unsupported and bugs about it were ignored. But even if supported, you can't know if it under some configurations or runtime circumstances uses dlopen for something.
Or maybe once you juggle more than X file descriptors some code switches from using `poll()` to using `select()` (or `epoll()`).
My thoughts last time I looked at seccomp: https://blog.habets.se/2022/03/seccomp-unsafe-at-any-speed.h...
> A problem with that approach is that libc can after an upgrade decide to start doing syscalls you were not expecting.
That would break capsicum, too, so I don’t see how that’s a problem when “comparing Capsicum to using seccomp in the same way”.
That's the approach I meant by "that approach", the library the parent commenter was talking about writing for a customer. Compare this to Landlock or OpenBSDs pledge/unveil.
Now that Landlock actually is a thing, have you considered writing another followup? Given what I've seen of landlock, I expect it'll be spicy...
I took the bait.
“The goal of Landlock is to enable restriction of ambient rights (e.g. global filesystem or network access) for a set of processes. Because Landlock is a stackable LSM [(Linux Security Model)], it makes it possible to create safe security sandboxes as new security layers in addition to the existing system-wide access-controls. ... Landlock empowers any process, including unprivileged ones, to securely restrict themselves.”
https://docs.kernel.org/userspace-api/landlock.html
I've actually found it pretty fine. It doesn't have full coverage, but they have a system of adding coverage (ABI versions), and it covers a lot of the important stuff.
The one restriction I'm not sure about is that you can't say "~/ except ~/.gnupg". You have to actually enumerate everything you do want to allow. But maybe that's for the best. Both because it mandates rules not becoming too complex to reason about, and because that's a weird requirement in general. Like did you really mean to give access to ~/.gnupg.backup/? Probably not. Probably best to enumerate the allowlist.
And if you really want to, I guess you can listdir() and compose the exhaustive list manually, after subtracting the "except X".
I find seccomp unusable and not fit for purpose, but landlock closes many doors.
Maybe you know better? I'd love to hear your take.
I definitely don't know better, and after taking a few more looks at landlock, I'm not even sure what my objections were, probably got it confused with something else entirely. Confusion and ignorance on my part I guess.
Yeah I'm not a fan of seccomp (https://blog.habets.se/2022/03/seccomp-unsafe-at-any-speed.h...).
On Linux I understand that Landlock is the way to go.
Landlock right now doesn't offer a lot for things that aren't file system access. Other than that it's great, you can have different restrictions per-thread if you want to.
I've seen AI written blog posts before, but this is one step above: the entire blog (~90 articles) have been AI generated over the past three months.
I already find it very frustrating that most open source projects spawning on HN's front page are resume-boosting AI slop but if blogs start being the same the internet is definitely dead.
Edit: it doesn't even looks like it's resume-boosting in this case, the “person” behind it doesn't even appear to exist. We can only speculate about the intent behind this.
This site is a perfect example showing why people are complaining about grey text, to me it is unreadable. See:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47268574
And without Javascript enabled, the page refreshes in a loop!
I can't read it normally even on 300% zoom. Somehow even reading mode is broken, due to diagrams being rendered in browser - I did not expect that.
But hey, it's a game!
The font and color combination is terrible. It looks blurry to me, even at high zoom.
Game in background doesn't help either.
It reminds me the pinnacle of design - Microsoft Authenticator. On Android, out of the blue, it displays global overlay to select one of the 3 numbers to confirm login.
The overlay is ... transparent.
You're not missing anything, the entire blog is AI slop.
I'd love to hear this explained. Deeply.
The UI is fun but unreadable, but content is solid. Explain how this is slop please.
Several reasons:
1. The post mainly reiterates a single idea (Capsicum enumerates what the process can do, seccomp provides a configurable filter) in many different ways. There is not much actual depth, code samples notwithstanding. Nothing on why different designs were chosen, how easy each is to use, outcomes besides the Chrome example, etc.
2. There are a lot of AI writing tells, like staccato sentences, parallelism ("Same browser. Same threat model. Same problem."), pointless summary tables, "it's not X, it's Y" contradiction ("This is not a bug. It is the original Unix security model"), etc.
3. The author has roughly a blog post a day, all with similar style and on widely varied topics, and in the same writing style. Unless the author has deep expertise on a remarkably wide range of topics and spends all their time writing, these can't reflect deep insight or experience, but minimal editing of AI output.
So yes, it's pretty sloppy.
It's pretty obvious. Lots of LLM signs. Short sentences that keep repeating the same idea. It's not x, it's this. In fact, the entire blog seems to be LLM-generated.
The game happening at the same time is just distraction central too.
so .. if i'm getting this right, this is an article about security, but the author can't be bothered to configure https correctly?
What'd they get wrong? Firefox and curl aren't reporting any TLS errors for me.