88 comments

  • pavel_lishin 2 hours ago

    > It is also a very robust vehicle capable of withstanding elemental and physical extremities, as shown on the British TV show “Top Gear.”[6]

    If you haven't ever watched Top Gear, this is definitely one of the standout bits they did - putting that truck through absolute hell, and watching it continue to start up.

    I highly recommend it, even if you don't think of yourself as a Car Guy. It's basically a comedy show that just happens to use cars.

  • avidiax 2 hours ago

    While I don't think it would prevent our troops from having foreign-produced trucks in theater, we can't affordably procure such trucks thanks to the Chicken Tax. I would also guess that giving a DoD contract to Toyota for a truck that may not be registrable in the US would also face institutional resistance.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax

    • bluGill 2 hours ago

      The military has an incentive to ensure there are plenty of Americans who know how to design and manufacture things. A truck and a tank have a lot in common - if war breaks out we want the ability to take people of of trucks and get them making things the military needs.

      This is the same reason the Navy has for building ships in the US even though they can be done other places cheaper.

    • rootusrootus an hour ago

      Toyota has factories in the US where they produce pickups. They could build the Hilux here if they thought it would do well in the market.

      • HNisCIS an hour ago

        That's the thing though, they can't, at least until the very recent advent of EVs. We used to have similar vehicles (the old 80s/90s ford ranger, tacoma, etc) but they were regulated out of existence by CAFE standards.

        Even if you repealed CAFE today, the automakers have all built their entire business strategy around selling enormous expensive vehicles and generally despise producing lower cost options.

        We are starting to see what appears to be the beginnings of a small pickup renaissance due to electrification but none have actually hit the market yet and trump has further stalled that progress by messing with EV subsidies and environmental standards.

        • kube-system an hour ago

          The current Hilux is extremely close in size to the US Tacoma... It has also grown over the years. Although if you look at the footprint size (e.g. what CAFE measures), the Tacoma has the wheels a little more advantageously placed.

          I am sure they could consolidate the models to work in both the US and abroad, but my guess is they do enough US volume that it is not yet advantageous to do so. There's already a number of major parts that have been shared recently between the Tacoma and Hilux... e.g. the 2TR-FE engine and AC60 transmission. But usually Toyota chooses to spec the Tacoma as a more up-market vehicle, which makes sense given the US market.

        • zdragnar an hour ago

          They are massive because of the cafe standards. There's plenty enough of a market for smaller trucks, even the Ford Maverick which is closer to a car with a bed sold out immediately.

          I like my big truck but when it dies, if there's a small truck available that lets me plow snow and tow logs in the forest, I'll get it.

    • gowld 2 hours ago

      25% tariff isn't a roadblock for military spending.

      • mjhay an hour ago

        Regarding Western military procurement,

        “We have such sights to show you!”

    • HNisCIS an hour ago

      Also, because of CAFE standards, the US can't even attempt to create its own competing light trucks as everything needs to be fucking massive to maintain the emission exemptions.

      The thinking was it would make cars more efficient but instead everyone just built obscenely large vehicles that were classified as trucks instead of passenger vehicles.

      • thatcat an hour ago

        CAFE stopped being enforced in 2022 and don't apply going forward.

      • AnthonyMouse 43 minutes ago

        There are two ways to improve fuel economy. The first is technology (fuel injection, aerodynamics, hybrids, etc.). The second is to make the vehicle smaller.

        The first one is a trade off against cost, but the market is already pretty good at handling that one on its own. Fuel injection and aerodynamics don't add much to the cost of a car, so pretty much everything has that now. Hybrid batteries are more expensive, but the price is coming down, and as it does the percentage of hybrid cars is going up. You don't really need a law for this; people buy it when the fuel savings exceeds the cost of the technology.

        The second one is a trade off against things like cargo capacity. If you say that "cars" have to get >35 MPG at the point before hybrids are cost effective, or keep raising the number as the technology improves, it's essentially just a ban on station wagons. And then what do the people who used to buy station wagons do instead? They buy SUVs.

        The entire premise is dumb. If you want more efficient vehicles then do a carbon tax which gets refunded to the population as checks, and then let people buy whatever they want, but now the break even point for hybrids and electric cars makes it worth it for more people.

  • taniks1618 2 hours ago

    I wish it was easy and simple to buy the Hilux in America. Many amazing foreign vehicles have been banned or heavily taxed by the Federal Government to prevent competition.

    • cosmic_cheese 2 hours ago

      Imagine how much nicer driving around in the suburbs would be if the majority of vehicles were town cars like Honda Fits, mini-mini-vans like Honda Freed, pre-2003 Tacomas, and kei trucks/vans instead of the usual mix of unreasonably tall and boxy crossovers/SUVs and brodozer trucks.

      • ericmay an hour ago

        Well I don't think it would be that much different, truthfully. The problem of the suburbs is a matter of layout and zoning, not so much the vehicles used. If you fix the layout and zoning it'll naturally reduce vehicle size.

        • jaredklewis an hour ago

          Would better zoning have a bigger impact? Of course.

          But it would definitely make an impact. If you are driving a Honda fit, there is no distance at which you can’t see my kids.

          In a ford f-150, the driver probably needs to be at least a dozen feet away to see my kids

      • Amezarak an hour ago

        I think you probably know this because you used the US name for the car (internationally known as the Jazz), but for those who don’t, Honda discontinued the Fit in the US market due to poor sales. For every internet comment bemoaning the lack of these vehicles there’s the actual fact of revealed consumer preference in the US market.

        • cosmic_cheese an hour ago

          Much of consumer preference doesn't originate from the consumers' own minds, though. It's shaped largely by marketing, and in the US car companies have been pushing bigger, boxier, more plush, and more expensive with its ad spend and incentives for decades now. It's way easier to find a dealership offering 0%-2% financing on some aircraft carrier of a vehicle than it is on a small car.

    • kube-system 10 minutes ago

      The current Hilux really isn't much different than a Tacoma to call it "amazing"

      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/Upacara_...

      The old Hilux that was on Top Gear hasn't been made for a quarter century.

    • hnav 2 hours ago

      Even vehicles that are largely the same as those we get here are banned from being brought in. All because Mercedes didn't like being undercut by gray market imports and lobbied the government.

    • rootusrootus an hour ago

      Toyota must not think it is that amazing, else they would use their pickup factory in Texas to make Hilux's to sell here.

    • TitaRusell an hour ago

      America will become like East Germany and the Trabant.

      And thanks to Trump's antics Detroit is losing the Mexican and Canadian markets...

    • mywittyname an hour ago

      The Hilux isn't "banned" from the USA. Toyota can federalize it and sell it here at any time. Toyota doesn't bring it here because we have the Tacoma - a truck designed to be more inline with American consumer tastes.

      If Toyota wanted to, they could readily start manufacturing Hiluxes in Mexico and importing them into the USA. Presumably, the reason they don't do this is because Americans hate small pickup trucks. Every single truck on sale in the USDM sells better in larger footprint spec.

      There's maybe 20k American who are willing to buy a new truck with the wheelbase the size of a Mustang (smallest Hilux). Even small BoF SUVs have the same problem. Take the FJ Cruiser, despite being a cult classic, it sold terribly in the USA, likely due to being too small.

      Plus, they are expensive. In Australia, the cheapest non-work-spec Hilux trim is ~$55k - which is like $38kUSD. A Tacoma starts cheaper than that and is much larger.

      • HNisCIS an hour ago

        They can't produce them here because of CAFE.

        • kube-system 24 minutes ago

          CAFE doesn't prevent them from producing or selling it here, plenty of automakers just pay CAFE fines. The Tacoma and Hilux are very similar in overall size, but the Tacoma does have the wheels pushed slightly closer to the corners, likely for this reason.

          However, current CAFE fines are capped to a whopping $0.00

          The Hilux is also pretty tall and narrow, which I am guessing is very advantageous in markets where most buyers drive them on unpaved roads, and not very advantageous in countries where highway rollover tests are performed and they are primarily operated on highways with 12' wide lanes.

  • HeyLaughingBoy 2 hours ago

    I loved my 1987 Toyota 4x4 pickup with all its mods. My wife used to say that I'd get rid of her before I got rid of it (wife's still here; I sold the truck long ago).

    But no way in hell would I want to be a real accident in one. That's why they're no longer sold in the US. Amazing off-roader, cheap and extremely reliable.

    But they're stuck in 1980's crash survivability while the rest of the world moved on.

    • thatcat 2 hours ago

      They're selling side by sides today in the <3500 dry wt. category which can be road registered. If used primarily for agriculture, they're even tax exempt from registration in some states. The 80's toyota pickup is better than a side by side and weighs less than 3500, arguably safer, and offers better utility for agriculture. There are plenty of Toyota manufacturing facilities in the US, which would avoid the chicken tax on import. It's not impossible or unreasonable for light weight toyota turbo diesels with hydraulic systems, an aluminum frame, and manual locking hubs to materialize.

      • rpcope1 20 minutes ago

        That's the dirty secret, is that a lot of the side-by-sides kind of suck in relation to an old Tacoma, S10, Mahindra Roxor or a Kei truck, and cost an arm and a leg. It's amazing to me that Polaris sells as many as they do, given what they cost and their capabilities.

  • netsharc 2 hours ago

    Seems like the question is never answered. There's a lot of how the trucks get there, but not why they're better. (I skimmed it, the writing has too much emotional bait of "Look how evil they are! Don't forget, we're the good guys!").

    Maybe it's survivor bias, the ones that are crap have been blown up by a Hellfire shot by a drone..

    • chongli 2 hours ago

      It’s the same story as the Casio F-91W as well as the AK-47. Terrorists (or just any armed paramilitary group) who live in the back country far from common supply lines have a great need for standardized, rugged, reliable, and repairable technology. By living that life, they’re basically forced to think about these issues as a matter of survival.

    • cma256 2 hours ago

      I can tell you precisely why foreign Toyotas (especially certain models) are more reliable that whats typically sold in the US. No electronics and parts which operate based on physics (pressure, gravity, etc). Both of these decisions lend themselves to a simple engine compartment and repairability.

      In the US, you can buy a five-speed 4runner which is about the simplest engine available on the market. Has all the benefits enumerated above and its trivially repairable by DIYers. However, even the 4runner has annoying garbage which can fail.

      Compare the newest 70 series Land Crusier in Japan to the US Land Cruiser (Prado). Difference is a v8 with no electronics and a 4 cylinder hybrid filled with electronics and a rats nest of tubes running across the top of the engine. Try working on that... Of course its get +20mpg compared to the Japanese version. I'm pretty sure the 70 series is 4 wheel drive always whereas the prado runs in 2 wheel drive but has a 4 wheel switch (more complexity -- better gas mileage).

      Anyway, intangibles such as availability of parts and lower pricing makes scavenging more economical and increases life span.

      Also, stability of the platform means there's lots of expertise that has developed over the past +30 years. Same design, same repairs, same parts. Makes things easy.

      • robocat a minute ago

        [delayed]

      • stinkbeetle an hour ago

        The V8 in the 70 series landcruiser uses computer controlled electronic injection. It also has other electronic / electro-mechanical systems like ABS and airbags.

        • cma256 an hour ago

          Fair enough!

    • the__alchemist 2 hours ago

        - Cheap + reliable
        - Parts for maintenance easy to come by
        - Strong enough to mount an 50 cal in the back
      
      You might have a mix of government owned vehicles, and ones rented from the local economy. You might be driving Hiluxes to work, and observing ISIS or partner forces using the same model as fighting vehicles.
      • conductr 2 hours ago

        Is the mounting problem even real? I’ve shot a 50 cal rifle unmounted and I’d venture to say it could be mounted to anything. It’s mainly for ergonomic / accuracy / rapid fire stability and doesn’t need significant structural support. You could probably mount it to an ATV if you wanted to.

        • bluGill an hour ago

          Sort of. A truck has a frame that you can drill a hole in and bolt the thing to. Simple and easy.

          A typical uni-body car is most than strong enough for the weight, but there is likely no place where the sheet metal is strong enough to support the bolt. You can make it work if you want, but it requires a more complex mounting system. (of course a truck has a nice open bed which has other advantages for mounting a gun - the typical car doesn't have a good place to mount the gun even if you build the mounting system).

          ATVs can carry the weight, but finding a place to put the bolts will be a pain.

          • the__alchemist an hour ago

            Also, the guy can ride around standing in the back operating the gun; I can't see how that would work in a car.

    • xg15 2 hours ago

      > the writing has too much emotional bait of "Look how evil they are! Don't forget, we're the good guys!"

      I mean, that blog seems to be an official Air Force publication. I don't find it very surprising that an army blog (of any nation's military) would stick to that nation's official narrative and not veer into larger geopolitical questions.

      • netsharc an hour ago

        But talking about the narrative can be written in a neutral way ("we're fighting terrorists"), and there's trying to convince readers (and maybe themselves) that they are as noble as the crusaders. Sad if you don't understand the difference.

  • PieTime 2 hours ago

    Maybe stop US should stop funding ISIS, Al Queda in Syria, mujahideen in Afghanistan…

    • CrzyLngPwd 35 minutes ago

      Don't be silly. Can't have stability in Israel's adversaries

  • londons_explore 2 hours ago

    Stories like this always seem one-sided.

    Can't a journalist or researcher find at least one person on the other side from back when this was done in ~2012 and interview them?

    Sure, many will be reluctant to talk, and Afghanistan isn't exactly a stable place right now, but all it would take is a phone call to the right people...

    • cucumber3732842 an hour ago

      >Stories like this always seem one-sided.

      Nuanced "it's complicated" takes don't gain traction.

      Confirm the audience's biases and it's straight to the top.

  • treesknees 2 hours ago

    Why do websites constantly insist on having small gray on white background text, stretching 160+ characters per line? Practically impossible to read on desktop. I wish people would think about default readability. Even Microsoft Edge’s reading mode barely made a difference.

  • nickdothutton 28 minutes ago

    Reminds me of a back burner project I have. "The Technical In War".

  • jabroni_salad 2 hours ago
  • tantalor 2 hours ago
  • Gualdrapo 2 hours ago
  • tinfoilhatter an hour ago

    Because ISIS was a rebranded Al Quaeda which emerged from the Mujahideen terrorist group which was funded by the US through Operation Cyclone headed by the Polish Jesuit Zbigniew Brzezinski. They've always had funding from the Jesuits / US war industry. It's no surprise they have access to these vehicles if one understands that all modern wars are orchestrated.

  • benbojangles 2 hours ago

    Big reveal: they're not but bringing out a feeling of superiority in your enemy inside a warzone makes them easier targets

  • AndrewKemendo 2 hours ago

    Glad to see my alma mater represented here doing good research.

    I served in Iraq as an AF commander. My 2001 Tundra is still going strong ;)

    • downut 2 hours ago

      So is mine (2001TRD bought new). Searched all over AZ looking for manual everything and I got it, except for the trans. It replaced an fj60 Landcruiser. Beautiful machine I worked on a lot (5spd trans, lift, exhaust, gas tank) but it needed more power. The FJ-60 replaced an absolutely bottom basic 4cyl 4wd 5spd manual Toy "Pickup", better than a jeep 'cause you could carry shit off road, that the child outgrew sitting in the middle behind the stick.

      The only thing I dislike about the Tundra is the gas mileage. I thought I would hate the auto trans but then I did some largish sandy-ish steps uphill and fuck me that was easy. Ah, there is another annoying thing: anti-lock brakes make sandy steep downhills with exposure much more interesting than they should be.

      When I die I want to be buried in it.

      God the new gigantic Tundras look awful. I think I'm seeing a lot more newish Tacomas these days, and they still look decent. They definitely look easier to park.

      • AndrewKemendo 35 minutes ago

        Hell Yeah V8 TRD rep

        I am thinking of upgrading to a Toyota Land Cruiser 200 but the full cab Hilux just can’t be beat

  • tomlockwood 2 hours ago

    One of the books that influenced my thinking the most was The Accidental Guerilla by David Kilcullen where he posits that economic disadvantage drove a lot of people to insurgency. This article supports that. Worth a read!

  • einpoklum an hour ago

    > ISIS may have acquired Toyota Hilux vehicles thanks to the perpetual cycle of U.S. involvement in Foreign Military Sales with the Middle East

    No surprises there. A lot of ISIS' actual weaponry was stuff the US had equipped the crony Iraqi military with, and was just picked up by ISIS when the Iraqi soldiers retreated - like a weapons cache in a computer game: Move over the building and your ammo slider goes up magically.

  • tamimio 2 hours ago

    What’s better than Hilux is the Land Cruiser 70 or 75 series, more reliable and bigger payload. That being said, you can never go wrong with Toyota, reliable yet simple, if you open the Hilux engine hood you can literally see your feet through the engine area because only few components are in there, compare this to say a german car, and you need a manual on just where to find the engine oil stick.

  • testing22321 2 hours ago

    Because the chicken tax keeps out great vehicles so the US automakers don’t have to compete.

    The hilux and 79 landcruiser are run of the mill workhorses in virtually every country in the world except the US and Canada. They run rings around the Tacoma and tundra.

    Tariffs and old world protectionism like the chicken tax are keeping the US automakers on life support, but they’re all doomed - they’re not even trying to compete.

    • nextos 2 hours ago

      AFAIK, the classic Toyota Land Cruiser (J70) has not been sold in EU for more than a decade since it doesn't comply with emission regulations.

      Interestingly, some are assembled in Portugal for North African and Middle East markets.

      • fakedang an hour ago

        Land cruisers are almost collectors items now in the Middle East. Transcends across wealth and status. Doesn't matter if it's a middle class office worker with a large family, a soccer mom living in the Palm or a filthy rich oil sheikh with an arsenal of sports cars stored away in his garage - they all have Land Cruisers (or the Prado).

        I might actually just get into the hobby of collecting Land Cruiser models, and maybe a few Japan-exclusive Toyota models.

    • rootusrootus an hour ago

      Explain why, if they are so much better than the Taco and Tundra, we can get the latter here in the US without paying the Chicken Tax?

      Toyota manufacturers those trucks in the US. They could manufacture the Hilux here too, but they choose not to. So it seems like the Chicken Tax isn't the actual problem. Toyota seems to think Americans do not want the Hilux, at least not in sufficient quantities to justify bringing it to market.

    • seemaze 2 hours ago

      Been lusting after a 76 cruiser since I got my license. Settled for a first gen taco in the early aughts. It's been from Cabo to Dawson and back again twice and is still only half way through it's useful life..

    • neom 2 hours ago

      Fingers crossed Carney changes for us Canadians, I was in Mexico for a month and rented a BYD Seal, fantastic car.

    • logancbrown 2 hours ago

      The "protectionism" you cite is due to crash regulation and emissions standards.

      • linkage 2 hours ago

        This is unadulterated cope.

        America has 40% more traffic fatalities per km driven than the European Union and has less stringent emissions standards (especially for the Hilux's category, which is actually why giant SUVs became so popular over the years).

        The US government doesn't even bother with these spurious pretexts anymore. They openly admit that they want to coddle local automakers to ensure that the government has a supply chain of transportation vehicles in wartime. It's quite literally socialism for the entire American auto sector.

        • TitaRusell an hour ago

          This in itself would not be so bad. After all Korea and Japan supported their auto industry.

          But the American car companies are just completely unwilling to make cars that the rest of the world wants to buy.

        • rootusrootus an hour ago

          > coddle local automakers

          Are you only including automakers headquartered in the US, or are you also including automakers who have a bunch of factories in the US?

        • bluGill an hour ago

          Irrelevant - they still don't meet our standards.

    • robotnikman 2 hours ago

      I wish we could get the Hilux here. Had to settle for a Tacoma instead.

    • NDizzle 2 hours ago

      I, too, am waiting to execute my master plan to import a 70 series Land Cruiser. Late 90s/early 00s model. It's almost time. Last car I'll ever need to buy.

    • gowld 2 hours ago

      In case you forgot after you read the article: the article talks about the US providing Hilux trucks to allies in the Middle East.

    • Der_Einzige 2 hours ago

      The C8 corvette is car of the year for like 5+ years running by every major automotive publication. When GM/Chevy tries, they beat everyone else. Too bad bean counters ruin everything except their halo cars.

  • themafia 2 hours ago

    Why not deal with the cause of the terrorism?

    Are we really worried what vendor they get their trucks from?

    • pavel_lishin 2 hours ago

      > Why not deal with the cause of the terrorism?

      slaps forehead Why didn't I think of that!

      • themafia 2 hours ago

        What's the alternative. In a terrorist camp somewhere:

        "Guys! We can't Toyota's anymore. I guess terrorism is over! Pack it up and go home!"

        Sheesh.

    • CoastalCoder 2 hours ago

      > Why not deal with the cause of the terrorism?

      I don't think that's a simple proposition.

      • direwolf20 2 hours ago

        Some terrorism is because we murdered the terrorist's family, and we could just stop murdering families. I don't think this one is, though.

        • hnav 2 hours ago

          No, these guys we seem to have funded and supported. We even helped a former AQ leader become the president of Syria.

    • hsbauauvhabzb 2 hours ago

      > Are we really worried what vendor they get their trucks from?

      There are for sure gun manufacturers that would love to sell terrorists guns, can car manufacturers that would sell terrorists cars. The harder they are to obtain, the less success the terrorists will have in their objectives.

      Do you really think we shouldn’t care, understand or look to shut down supply chains?