W54

(en.wikipedia.org)

42 points | by thunderbong 3 hours ago ago

27 comments

  • metadat 2 hours ago

    Since the range of the W54 fired from a recoilless gun is only a mile or two, what does the operator who personally performed the firing do afterwards? Start driving away at a high rate of speed?

    How can I find out the degree and risk of radioactive fallout from a warhead equivalent to 2 - 10,000 tons of TNT?

    Maybe don't fire on a windy day from downwind..

    • itishappy 2 hours ago

      > Since the warhead also posed a threat to the crew firing it, the Army recommended that soldiers manning the Davy Crockett select firing positions in sheltered locations, such as the rear slope of a hill. Soldiers were also encouraged to keep their heads down to protect themselves from the warheadā€™s detonation.

      https://armyhistory.org/the-m28m29-davy-crockett-nuclear-wea...

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)

      • jcgrillo 2 hours ago

        According to the nukemap calculator if you're ~1km away in the open you'd be fine, and firing from cover (e.g. behind a berm or hill) you could be as close as 200m away with hearing protection and make it out alive so long as you immediately run upwind.

      • me_me_me 2 hours ago

        ie. good luck, you will be remembered

    • imglorp 2 hours ago

      https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap

      At 1kt (max for the W54?) most of the effects are under 1 km: eg the radiation radius is only 0.84 km. Looks like if you shoot 1 mile away up wind, take cover from the flash, and then run away upwind you'd be fine with some hearing protection.

      • metadat 2 hours ago

        Sorry to be a pedant, and I also want to confirm my understanding is correct (yes, I've attempted checking definitions, but.. :)

        In this case I think firing the device upwind would be ill-advised, as then the fallout will be blowing back to you.

        Edit: thank you for the correction @erikerikson! Noted, and best wishes!

        • erikerikson 2 hours ago

          You seem to have reversed the terms.

          Being upwind means the wind is blowing away from you towards your target and proceeds past your target further away from you.

          • imglorp an hour ago

            Parent is right too, I mixed up one of them. I should have said: shoot toward s downwind and run away towards upwind.

            • erikerikson an hour ago

              Ah, indeed you did. My brain slipped over that, thank you for helping me see it.

    • openasocket 2 hours ago

      The Davy Crockett variant seems to just have had a yield of 20 tonnes. Per nukemap (https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/ ) the fatal radiation range (of 500 rem) is like 500 meters. If you fire from, say, 5k the radiation exposure should be significantly lower. I donā€™t know how the radiation exposure scales over distance, but if itā€™s an inverse square law that means at 5k youā€™re getting like 5 rem. Which isnā€™t great, itā€™s like the equivalent of a CT scan

    • Bjorkbat 2 hours ago

      I always assumed firing one of these things was a suicide mission, but some NATO guy on Quora has suggested otherwise, and it seems pretty convincing.

      https://www.quora.com/Would-the-Davy-Crockett-tactical-nucle...

      Basically, even though the W54 had a max yield of a 1kt, the Davy Crockett used a warhead with a far lower yield, as low as 10 tons

    • 2 hours ago
      [deleted]
  • fdav 3 hours ago

    Didn't know the mini nuke in Fallout was actually real: https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Mini_nuke

    • Oarch 2 hours ago

      That paratrooper image is very Doctor Strangelovian

  • mikewarot 2 hours ago

    Something like this[1] might come in handy for tracking one of those down, should it become lost somewhere.

    Alternatively, if you just want to look for a radiological signal, you could use one of these[2].

    [1] https://patents.google.com/patent/US11892419B2/en

    [2] https://www.caen.it/products/gamon-drone/

  • 2 hours ago
    [deleted]
  • woodrowbarlow 2 hours ago

    that photo of a paratrooper diving with one of these between their legs has dr. strangelove energy.

  • Der_Einzige 2 hours ago

    Given the number of broken arrow incidents, itā€™s remarkable that a random city hasnā€™t been terrorist nuked or at least dirty bombed yet. Obama made a big deal about warning the world about the risks of nuclear proliferation. He told us that al Queda and ISIS have tried to acquire weapons of mass destruction including nuclear.

    I literally live in fear that one day Iā€™ll wake up to find that some big city is just gone and that the world is about to go through some real authoritarian shit in the wake of it. Imagine Chicago getting nuked from some terrorists and then no one takes responsibility right after. Trump would start WW3.

    Iā€™ve had the idea to write a book about this scenario (or ideally a mod for a better version of hoi4) called ā€œGood Morning Americaā€ about the nation responding to this exact scenario.

    • ggreer 2 hours ago

      Because every nuclear power developed their own enrichment processes and bomb technology, their bombs have different isotope ratios in the fallout. It's possible to analyze the fallout to determine where the bomb came from. That might not tell you who is responsible (as the weapon may have been stolen), but it would at least tell you which country's nuke it was.[1][2]

      Also, one nuke isn't as destructive as you might think. If you play around with nukemap, you can see that a 50 kiloton warhead detonated in Chicago would be the worst attack in US history, but the city would not be gone. Around 5% of the population would be killed and another 7% would be injured.[3] Remember that the two cities that were nuked took about 10 years to rebuild, and that was in a country that had lost most of its infrastructure and manpower in a devastating world war.

      1. https://trace.tennessee.edu/ijns/vol2/iss3/6/

      2. https://www.science.org/content/article/surprise-nuclear-str...

      3. https://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/?&kt=50&lat=41.8699304&ln...

      • tolien 21 minutes ago

        > Because every nuclear power developed their own enrichment processes and bomb technology, their bombs have different isotope ratios in the fallout. It's possible to analyze the fallout to determine where the bomb came from. That might not tell you who is responsible (as the weapon may have been stolen), but it would at least tell you which country's nuke it was.

        A major plot point of Tom Clancy's A Sum of All Fears is exactly this.

        A bomb gets lost by the Israelis and acquired by terrorists (Arab nationalists in the book, neo-Nazis in the film) and detonated in Baltimore with the intention of starting a nuclear exchange between the US and the Soviet Union. It turns out the fissile material was made at Oak Ridge, crisis averted, tea^Wcoffee and medals in Washington.

    • openasocket 2 hours ago

      One saving grace is that nukes do have a shelf life. They require regular maintenance too. The radioactive core of plutonium or uranium can last for a while, but the various components will degrade. I heard once on the Arms Control Wonk podcast that this could be on the order of like 10 years. Someone could still salvage that to make a dirty bomb, of course, but thereā€™s plenty of easier ways to make a dirty bomb from other radioactive materials

    • lokimedes 2 hours ago

      The effort by the nuclear nations to hunt down these weapons is likely significant. As it their efforts to stop proliferation in general. It is also something the US, Russia and everyone else can agree on. Just consider the number of Iranian physicists that have driven off the road under tragic circumstancesā€¦ How would non-state actors be hunted, no doubt intensively.

    • time0ut 2 hours ago

      That is similar to the premise of the TV show Jericho [0]. Not a great show, but its worth a watch if you like that sort of thing.

      [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jericho_(2006_TV_series)

    • jcgrillo 2 hours ago

      We're going to run the experiment sometime. The equilibrium has miraculously held since 1945 but it's not stable, and someday there will be a nuclear exchange. There's no way to put the genie back in the bottle.

    • nradov 2 hours ago

      The lack of a terrorist nuclear attack is hardly remarkable. There have only been a few "broken arrow" incidents. Most of them would have caused major damage to the physics package and other key components. Or everything is deep under the ocean, beyond scuba range.

      Even if a terrorist somehow obtained a complete warhead in good condition they would have a limited time window to use it. In order to operate reliably, warheads require regular maintenance by skilled technicians, and then every few years the entire thing has to be pulled and remanufactured. This is part of the reason why our nuclear deterrent is so enormously expensive: there's a lot of support infrastructure behind the weapons and delivery platforms.

      A radiological weapon (dirty bomb) is a more realistic threat.

    • kijin 2 hours ago

      It will take a much bigger nuke than a backpack to make a big city "just gone" in the modern world.

      Every now and then, ships full of explosive material blow up in a coastal city, with yields much larger than what a small nuke like W54 can produce. Texas City. Tianjin. Beirut. They were tragic accidents with many casualties, but nowhere near strong enough to wipe a big city off the map. Reinforced concrete is incredibly tough. There's an old building in Hiroshima that survived only 150 yards from ground zero. WW2-style firebombing is much more effective at rm -rf'ing cities than most nukes we have today.

      Whether or not the man at the top will take the explosion as an opportunity to attack another country, now that's a much more serious concern.

  • 2 hours ago
    [deleted]